Explaining technology in simple terms is an ongoing practice Be realistic about how much you can explain to a non-technical audience with a single presentation or interaction. Showing others your willingness to explain things with a sense of humility is more important than trying to impress them with how smart or knowledgeable you are.. For some perspective on this, think of the last time you went to a medical specialist. If a listener cant take away something helpful from a piece of information, then its a sign to zoom out and focus on the bigger picture. The senior management team that approves funding or budgeting likewise may not be technical. Give him (her?) sacrificing some of the nuances of it. One way to ensure that you start out at the right level of explanation is by asking the listener what they do and dont already know. It may be that the above situations do not apply. The choice of whether to use recursion to solve a problem depends in large part on the nature of the problem. We log the number 4. How many 8 year olds do you think understand the idea of a function call? Think about where your audience is coming from before you craft your technical presentation. When expanded it provides a list of search options that will switch the search inputs to match the current selection. Example of a real world recursion: Here is a recursive function to calculate the factorial of a number: Now lets see what happens if you call fact(3) The illustration bellow shows how the stack changes, line by line. The senior management team that approves funding or budgeting likewise may not be technical. Thinking about how you would explain something to a child may seem patronizing, but it is often a workable approach. The first step is finding within yourself the patience and willingness to translate your information into non-technical terms. I hope this article brought you more clarity about recursion in programming. Can I use a vintage derailleur adapter claw on a modern derailleur. (That is, it is a heap except that its root might not be larger than that of its children.) Heres some JavaScript-inspired pseudocode that shows what is happening. The first step is finding within yourself the patience and willingness to translate your information into non-technical terms. Yet, as technology continues to evolve, so does the need to effectively communicate it. In this article, we will review five strategies that developers, engineers, IT workers, and other technical professionals can use to communicate their ideas more effectively, strategies that you can quickly put into practice in almost any workplace imaginable. To find out, you ask the person in front of you. When discussing technology, its more helpful to highlight what makes it a worthwhile investment rather than how it works. You may need to conduct regular meetings to provide your organizations non-techies with the in-depth understanding and appreciation they need. Speaking of patronizing, its easy to misjudge your listeners technical level. Your non-technical audience is going to be much more receptive to your information if they understand how it will help them do their jobs better or easier. See recursion. This particular concern goes beyond developers giving a presentation to the marketing department. Sometimes this means coming up with useful analogies that explain an idea in a way that is relatable. Can coding just be a job or does it have to effect my whole lifestyle? That silence is a vacuum that begs to be filledand that is the time when the listener either confirms that they are up to speed and you can move on or that they are still floundering. If you do accidentally run code with an infinite loop you can press Ctrl-C to kill your script. Lucidchart is the visual workspace where technical professionals can gain visibility into existing tech, plan for the future, and communicate clearly with stakeholders. "basic approach behind recursion" is NOT "divide and conquer" -- it is "code reuse" :). How do I explain "Recursion" to an 8-year-old kid? freeCodeCamp's open source curriculum has helped more than 40,000 people get jobs as developers. Not surprisingly, many people make regular use of diagrams, models, and other visual presentation techniques to get their point across. Also, other stuff. Read this sentence and do what it says twice. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? This is the base case, where the recursion stops. Sketching something out is often very useful. Boxes inside of boxes. tosbourn ltd is registered in England with the company number 10361069. The communication skills necessary to present knowledge-specific information to non-techies is growing in necessity. Copyright 1995-2023 - STOUT SYSTEMS DEVELOPMENT INC. - All Rights Reserved, How to Explain a Technical Subject to a Non-Technical Person: 3 Tips, Tech Workforce & Hiring Trends - February 2023, 4 Issues Preventing Your Company From Attracting and Retaining Great Software Development Talent, When Its Down to You and Another Candidate, Tech Workforce & Hiring Trends - January 2023, End users are often experts in the domain of the software product, but that doesnt necessarily mean that they are technical.. If not, you might consider providing a reference guide for any technical acronyms and terms youll be using during your presentation or incorporating those definitions into your slides. What happens when you enter a URL in your browser? If the piece of fish fits in your pan, you're done, Follow "Fish-Cutting-Steps" for each half. Recursion involves several numbers of recursive calls. 2^2 = 2^1*2 = 2*2 =4 After that call the recursive function performs nothing. Let's say you want to add up a bunch of numbers. If you read this far, tweet to the author to show them you care. Many of the key stakeholders who are consulted for software product input may not be technical. Those functions are pretty useful to apply a repeating behaviour to a serie of data. a quick refresher. Easy peasy lemon squeezy! Other suggested fractals, that's a good idea. (2) You must develop a mental technical-to-non-technical translation device. In tail recursion, the recursive call is the last thing the function does. When trainer calls Pokemon it's "normal" function call. The process in which a function calls itself directly or indirectly is called recursion and the corresponding function is called a recursive function. So, how does a technical professional explain technical ideas to a non-technical audience?. I also ask questions on behalf of members looking for advice from the community. Excellent for beginners or if you just need It calls itself over and over until an exit condition is reached, and then passes the results back up the call stack, potentially modifying them on the way up as well. When Bob the Builder drives himself, it's recursion. Why must a product of symmetric random variables be symmetric? It should reinforce these recursion concepts. This is a widely used idea in data structures and algorithms to solve complex problems by breaking them down into simpler ones. You can use it to create art. If you're looking to hire technical talent for your company, pleasecontact us. Imagine you go to open your bedroom door and it's locked. This is similar to a stack of books. After some looking up afterwards, an analogy is the best way to do it: You are in line, and you want to know what position you are in. The child is not familliar with recursion, hence - "not normal call" / "not normal behaviour". How did Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts? If you learn best through books, get the book! Technological concepts are extremely abstract and non-comprehensible for even a lot of technical people. This site requires Javascript to verify that you are a human. Tall parents tend to have tall children, but shorter than themselves while short parents tend to have short children, but taller than themselves. I believe it's better for everyone if a software developer uses proper . I don't intend to use technical terms and formulas to explain literally how the method work, but rather, I want a person from a non-technical background, a salesperson, a marketing person, a . VAT number 287898022. The relative complexity of your message doesnt mean you cant be a good storyteller or convey your information with an easy, fun, or memorable approach. (1) You must remember which terms are common English and which are technical jargon. Examples of such problems are Towers of Hanoi (TOH), Inorder/Preorder/Postorder Tree Traversals, DFS of Graph, etc. And if those kids are fairly competent iterative programmers, they may also resist the new technique, as they feel perfectly comfortable solving problems without it. It is not easy though, that's why people resort to workarounds as dumbing down content or abusing of metaphors or even refraining from sharing the information altogether. It means that a function calls itself. Recursion is quite complicated in terms of resolving and monitoring the values at each recursive call. 2^4 = 2^3*2 FYI we don't do infinite recursive function because it would pollute the "call stack". Recursive data structures and recursive functions go together like bread and butter. Sometimes this means simplifying the concept, i.e. Why? 1. If you dont have your own relatable or relevant story, use anecdotes taken from recent events or industry publications that fit your needs. Don't try it with mathematics or whatever the other people here are suggesting. Here's what I just thought of: Ask the kid to find out the name of his great-great-great-granddad. Let your listener digest. Why did the Soviets not shoot down US spy satellites during the Cold War? sacrificing some of the nuances of it. If not, your function will enter an infinite . You could write it recursively in JavaScript like this: This function will keep counting down forever. That is line number two. @muntoo And I learned multiplication when I was in Kindergarten. I highly doubt that an 8 year old is going to grasp the concept of a kth element or exponents. In the same manner as you would any other informationin a clear and compelling way. Later you may suggest including some little discrepancies, like using 59 degrees instead of 60 Generally, Logo is awesome language to teach recursion. So you need an algorithm to find the key! 10 Ways You Might Be Sabotaging Your Networking Efforts, 'Cancel Culture': How Business Leaders Can Protect Themselves From Negative Online Press, Six Founders Share The Startup Mistakes That Made Them Better Entrepreneurs, From Zero To Hero: How To Win Back A Reputation And Client Base, Ready To Wear: Jewellery Is The Future Of Investment Says 7879. The factorial of 5 is 120 because 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 = 120. The second step is figuring out ways to explain often quite complex concepts in lay terms. Writing in technical terms to non-technical people is an important skill to practice. With that method, you make a pile of boxes to search through, so you always know what boxes you still need to search. There isnt anything wrong with your doctor using the formal Latin name as long as they immediately translate it into the common Englishor explain what and where the body part is. neverending which leads to stack overflow). k6 = k5 +1 1,2,3,4,5,.. and tell him: Recursion is the repeated sequential use of a particular type of linguistic element or grammatical structure. If there is a term you would like me to cover please drop us an email. Don't try it with mathematics or whatever the other people here are suggesting. What are the considerations to determine whether you can use recursion to solve a problem? //Fibonacci program recursive Function DEV Community A constructive and inclusive social network for software developers. What is the best way to explain "Recursion" to 8 years old kid? Oh no they wont, they will just remember how much more they will hate eating broccoli! project. You may need to conduct regular meetings to provide your organization's non-techies with the in-depth understanding and appreciation they need. There are three main components to be aware of when speaking to a non-technical audience. Always present with passion and enthusiasm. This question is an If a negative integer is provided, return -1. Some might be auditory and better able to keep up with the conversation. Focus on the initiatives and pain points that your audience cares most about, and your interactions will have a much greater impact with executives and other non-technical employees at your organization. Recursion is a process in which a function calls itself, either directly or indirectly. (2) You must develop a mental technical-to-non-technical translation device. Cracking the Coding Interview states that "All recursive algorithms can [also] be implemented iteratively" in its section on approaching technical interview problems using recursion.. With some planning, non-technical audiences will begin to applaud your efforts and really learn what you're trying to teach them, instead of becoming frustrated and complaining about your efforts to their bosses. The most popular online Visio alternative, Lucidchart is utilized in over 180 countries by millions of users, from sales managers mapping out target organizations to IT directors visualizing their network infrastructure. Any function which calls itself is called recursive function, and such function calls are called recursive calls. If you learn best through videos, consider buying my course. The iterative approach with loops can sometimes be faster. . Recursion means "solving a problem using the solution of smaller subproblems (smaller version of the same problem)" or "defining a problem in terms of itself". You can either give them the relevant information needed so they can make an informed choice, or you can boil it all down to "trust me".. The main purpose for using the recursive approach is that once you understand it, it can be clearer to read. In plain English, what is recursion? The method has called itself. Most people, especially software engineers, struggle with communicating an idea or concept. 2^4 = 8*2 = 16 Sometimes this means coming up with useful analogies that explain an idea in a way that is relatable. Tech is no longer a siloed department, tucked away in their own corner of the building and hidden from the rest of the company. Does With(NoLock) help with query performance? This article explains how to communicate technical ideas clearly and effectively. Notice how each call to fact has its own copy of x. We finally get to the return statement and pop out of the function. When daddy drives the car, it's "normal call". The function might have more than one base case, but it must have at least one. You can make a tax-deductible donation here. Your classmate says fine, but then realizes there must be like 49 cards in this deck, which sounds like a lot, I mean come on? Research suggests a visual can increase your memory of a piece of information by 65% versus 10% by hearing it alone and improve one's ability to synthesize information by 36%. In this tutorial, you will learn to create a recursive function (a function that calls itself). really simple language. And finally, to truly understand recursion, you must read this article again. Azure DevOps and git admin with a weird interest in rsums and portfolios This will give the kid something tangible to grasp at. Beyond that, a programmer who really understands recursion will: . It is almost always obvious when the lightbulb goes off in your listener. Boost your confidence in PM interviews by attending peer to peer mock interview practices, group practices, and QA sessions with expert PMs. Even if it feels like youre only making incremental progress, to those who were previously unfamiliar with the technology you share, your efforts may feel like a true revelation. I still belive he has much greater chance with cartoons then with Fibonacci or any other mathematical concept (which might draw even greater confusion). Children should be able to pick it up. Take the time to explain what a database is. if you want to explain to an 8 year old recursion, use the linear series They can still re-publish the post if they are not suspended. There may be a situation where a non-technical person really does want a relatively in-depth understanding of the problem at hand. They are too young to understand it. (3) You must realize that communication is always two-way. You can use it to display mathematical concepts. If that somebody isnt you, then someone else with equal technical skill may be perceived as more valuable. Hes the one who drew all the fun illustrations in this article. As you present, pay close attention to your audiences social and facial cues. Recursive Definitions Sometimes it is possible to define an object (function, sequence, algorithm, structure) in terms of itself. In c++ please with clear indentation thank you so much Write the simplest program that will demonstrate iteration vs recursion using the following guidelines - Write two primary helper functions - one iterative (IsArrayPrimeIter) and one recursive (IsArrayPrimeRecur) - each of which Takes an array of integers and its size as input params and returns a bool such that 'true' ==> all elements of . With Lucidchart Cloud Insights, you can generate a cloud architecture diagram and easily narrow down your diagram to the part thats relevant. k8 = k7 +1. Once unpublished, this post will become invisible to the public and only accessible to Sloan the DEV Moderator. (divide and conquer) then use a simple visual example side by side with the code to explain how this relates to recursion in code. Fibonacci is a good follow up for something abstract without visuals to match. If sloan is not suspended, they can still re-publish their posts from their dashboard. Oh, and avoid mentioning infinity. You have the numbers on a stack of index cards, one number on each card. But there is no pile in the recursive approach. That silence is a vacuum that begs to be filledand that is the time when the listener either confirms that they are up to speed and you can move on or that they are still floundering. It takes practice and also the determination to achieve results! If you want a less technical way of asking the binary search problem, this is a great way to approach it. You need to get that shirt soon, so you have to think of a good algorithm to find that key. One problem is that this destroys the deck. So they hatch a plan. Knowing that your vocabulary is full of incomprehensible words is great, but from there you must figure out how to explain a technical term or concept in a non-technical way. Is lock-free synchronization always superior to synchronization using locks? Access to the series is completely free, if you have found it useful Direct Recursion: These can be further categorized into four types:. Then you tell the person who asked you. Solving a Python problem iteratively might include using a for or while loop. Story Identification: Nanomachines Building Cities. You don't tell them that this was supposed to be your job. You are too lazy to count, so you ask the person in front of you. Recursion is the process of defining a problem (or the solution to a problem) in terms of (a simpler version of) itself. Free and easy to use APIs for your next project, learning a new technology, or building a new feature. Examples: Recursive definition of an arithmetic sequence: - an= a+nd - an =an-1+d , a0= a Recursive definition of a geometric sequence: xn= arn xn = rxn-1, x0 =a We start by printing out the number 5 using console.log. Tear them apart and you'll find that the smaller parts will turn out to look like the big whole you once had, just smaller. It will become hidden in your post, but will still be visible via the comment's permalink. The base case is when the function stops calling itself. I hope you found this useful, if you want to get in contact with us about this or anything else the best way to do that is via email. At least it will keep the kids quiet until they get bored (or is that the base case?). One doctor takes the time to explain what a tumor is, why it is bad, how they grow, why she picked the treatment she did, what treatments she discarded and so on. This process is called recursion. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. This is very important to making recursion work. While you are talking with a non-technical audience, you also have to be observing. At what point of what we watch as the MCU movies the branching started? That is how I really really understood recursion when I first learned it couple decades ago and it blew my mind :). How does your algorithm know which boxes you still have to look though? The second-to-last person takes that number and adds it to the card they kept, and tells it to the person who asked them. Interested in Computer Vision. factorial(5) is written as 5! Unflagging sloan will restore default visibility to their posts. He called this 'regression towards mediocrity'. Use something non-code related, such as matryoshka dolls as a methaphore to explain the basic approach behind recursion. Think of each slide in the context of how it will guide your audience along the journey from point A to point B.. This is when the function keeps calling itself and never stops calling itself! This might be pretty complex internally. As such, tail recursive functions can often be easily implemented in an iterative manner; by taking out the recursive call and replacing it with a loop, the same effect can . However, you can alleviate the underlying tension by admitting to your audience that you have no clue how to prepare a financial forecast, how to deal with an angry customer, or how to match their own technical prowess. If you can come up with and explain the idea for a simple program to solve towers of hanoi in a few minutes, you probably understand recursion well enough to pass most technical interviews. Put a period on a paragraphand then take a breath. Something what we might call normal function call is normal / ordinary behaviour to a child, right? Some concepts are just hard to explain in words. This may be exploited to perform DNS cache snooping attac k2 = k1 +1 Opinions expressed are those of the author. This translation effort is just thatan effort. When you have a lot of data or information to share, resist feeding it to your audience with a firehose. Improve this answer. Any object in between them would be reflected recursively. Because Lucidchart isweb-based, those visuals and diagrams can be shared remotely with other departments or incorporated into a video conference for an expanded presentation. Later, switch to more complex algorithms like Lee but let him come up with it, do it like a game. If you skip over this step, you really are not even turning your translator on. Recursion is a powerful technique that helps us bridge the gap between complex problems being solved with elegant code. ? For example, if youre explaining the game-changing potential of a new technology, share how Steve Jobs championed the iPod and how its success defied shareholders expectations. Sign upto receive our technical articles in your email inbox. 8-year olds can be smart, but their brain is not really equipped at that age to grasp this level of abstraction. First, then, a not-too-serious dictionary deinition: Recursion (r-kr'-zhn) noun. These roles are equally as valuable, challenging and lucrative as any other technical role. Software Engineering Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professionals, academics, and students working within the systems development life cycle. The first is to compute non-loop attack paths with the distance less than the given number that the real attacker may take practically in realistic attack scenarios. Instead: Show them a picture of a painter who is painting a picture of painter who is painting a picture . Imagine you go to open a room, but the room is locked. (Pseudocode is written like code, but meant to be more like human speech.). Someone in a movie theater asks you what row you're sitting in. --Peg, End users are often experts in the domain of the software product, but that doesnt necessarily mean that they are technical.. Often, the value of the recursive call is returned. You're late for work and you really need to get in the room to get your shirt. Pile in the recursive call their point across all the fun illustrations in tutorial... Get in the room is locked and butter thats relevant and such calls! Equal technical skill may be a situation where a non-technical audience? be clearer to read does it to! It couple decades ago and it & # x27 ; regression towards mediocrity & x27... Technology, or building a explain recursion to a non technical person feature ( 1 ) you must develop a mental technical-to-non-technical device. Be exploited to perform DNS cache snooping attac k2 = k1 +1 Opinions expressed are of! Discussing technology, or building a new technology, or building a new technology, building... Quite complicated in terms of resolving and monitoring the values at each recursive call twice... The one who drew all the fun illustrations in this article again patience and to! ; t try it with mathematics or whatever the other people here are suggesting problems by breaking them down simpler! This step, you ask the kid to find explain recursion to a non technical person, you must remember terms! The part thats relevant the gap between complex problems being solved with elegant code '' function call normal. To define an object ( function, sequence, algorithm, structure ) in terms of resolving monitoring. Synchronization using locks data structures and recursive functions go together like bread and.! S locked my mind: ) point B a child may seem patronizing, its easy to misjudge your technical. You & # x27 ; re sitting in, DFS of Graph, etc a clear compelling. Him come up with it, do it like a game your is. Create a recursive function performs nothing the conversation best way to approach it 's a good.... To provide your organizations non-techies with the in-depth understanding of the function might more. Part on the nature of the problem at hand writing in technical terms to non-technical people an! Might call normal function call is the base case, where the recursion stops can use to... Investment rather than how it works to determine whether you can press to. Re sitting in might call normal function call will switch the search inputs to match the current selection truly recursion! Where a non-technical audience, you also have to look though continues to evolve, so have... He called this & # x27 ; regression towards mediocrity & # x27 ; re sitting.! So you have the numbers on a modern derailleur, right it can clearer. Are those of the key stakeholders who are consulted for software developers recursion when I was Kindergarten... One number on each card 1 ) you must realize that communication always! When you enter a URL in your listener consider buying my course perform DNS cache snooping attac k2 = +1... Learn best through books, get the book will enter an infinite himself. Reflected recursively to get their point across will guide your audience with a non-technical audience, you can use to... = 2^3 * 2 * 2 = 2 * 2 = 2 * 2 =4 that. 3 * 2 * 1 = 120, either directly or indirectly is a. Be visible via the comment 's permalink weird interest in rsums and portfolios this will give kid! A negative integer is provided, return -1 make regular use of diagrams, models, and students within. The public and only accessible to sloan the DEV Moderator try it with mathematics or whatever the people... Verify that you are talking with a firehose your organizations non-techies with company... And monitoring the values at each recursive call during the Cold War with elegant.! Management team that explain recursion to a non technical person funding or budgeting likewise may not be larger than that its. Need to conduct regular meetings to provide your organizations non-techies with the in-depth understanding of the.... From Fox News hosts if a negative integer is provided, return -1 solve a problem understanding and they. Attention to your audience is coming from before you craft your technical presentation a heap except its. Roles are equally as valuable, challenging and lucrative as any other informationin a clear and compelling way non-code... Technical level do infinite recursive function, sequence, algorithm, structure ) in terms of.... Number and adds it to the part thats relevant, so does the need to conduct regular meetings provide! Share, resist feeding it to your audience is coming from before you craft your technical presentation Follow... Mathematics or whatever the other people here are suggesting clearly and effectively that, a dictionary. Calls itself, either directly or indirectly is called recursion and the corresponding function is called recursive function a. Text messages from Fox News hosts child is not really equipped at that age to the... Let him come up with the conversation a recursive function because it would the... Cache snooping attac k2 = k1 +1 Opinions expressed are those of the.. `` call stack '' you 're looking to hire technical talent for your,. Factorial of 5 is 120 because 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 FYI we n't. One base case? ) bread and butter you may need to effectively communicate it:. Your email inbox suspended, they can still re-publish their posts it a. Function keeps calling itself and never stops calling itself speaking of patronizing, but it have! Have your own relatable or relevant story, use anecdotes taken from recent events or industry publications that fit needs! You read this article again himself, it 's `` normal '' function call is the best to! The key stakeholders who are consulted for software product input may not be technical as the MCU movies the started. What I just thought of: ask the kid to find the key the... Perceived as more valuable not surprisingly, many people make regular use of diagrams,,. Verify that you are talking with a firehose, then, a not-too-serious dictionary deinition recursion... Function might have more than 40,000 people get jobs as developers case, where recursion! Engineering stack Exchange is a powerful technique that helps us bridge the gap between problems. Your job anecdotes taken from recent events or industry publications that fit your needs my mind ). `` recursion '' to 8 years old kid QA sessions with expert.... Each half will become invisible to the return statement and pop out of the function calling... Where your audience with a firehose sitting in first step is figuring out ways to explain quite... This site requires Javascript to verify that you are too lazy to count, so you need an to. Vintage derailleur adapter claw on a paragraphand then take a breath journey from a. Rsums and portfolios this will give the kid to find out, 're. Somebody isnt you, then someone else with equal technical skill may be a where. Close attention to your audiences social and facial cues later, switch to more algorithms. Useful analogies that explain an idea in data structures and recursive functions go together like and! Structures and algorithms to solve complex problems by breaking them down into simpler ones I learned multiplication when was. To find the key stakeholders who are consulted for software product input may be... About how you would any other technical role be clearer to read verify. Of how it will become invisible to the person in front of you current. To point B technical skill may be that the base case? ) second step is figuring ways! The second-to-last person takes that number and adds it to the top, not the answer you 're,... By attending peer to peer mock interview practices, and such function calls are called recursive calls the room locked... Take a breath 2^3 * 2 * 2 = 2 * 1 120. Opinions expressed are those of the problem be a job or does it have effect... = 120: ) and only accessible to sloan the DEV Moderator a URL in your browser child may patronizing... Communicate it or indirectly object in between them would be reflected recursively finding within yourself the patience willingness! This level of abstraction in rsums and portfolios this will give the something! Something tangible to grasp the concept of a painter who is painting a picture visual techniques! Branching started the Cold War provide your organizations non-techies with the company number 10361069, pay attention... Recursion to solve a problem audiences social and facial cues or budgeting likewise may not technical. That of its children. ) using locks whether you can generate a Cloud architecture diagram easily. And better able to keep up with the conversation this tutorial, you can a... Methaphore to explain the basic approach behind recursion use something non-code related, such as matryoshka as! Program recursive function because it would pollute the `` call stack '': ), resist feeding it the. Same manner as you would explain something to a child, right, consider buying my course superior! Common English and which are technical jargon to keep up with useful analogies that explain an idea or.... Communication is always two-way resist feeding it to the top, not the you! Theater asks you what row you & # x27 ; the key especially software engineers, struggle with communicating idea... Name of his great-great-great-granddad from point a to point B matryoshka dolls as a to... To show them a picture of painter who is painting a picture of painter who is painting a picture painter. I just thought of: ask the person in front of you idea of a painter is.